Chasing Predators: How The ICAC Program Has Evened The Playing Field

0:00 Hey, everyone. Welcome back. And today I have an esteemed guest on the show. We are going to talk about the ICAC, that is Internet Crimes Against Children. This gentleman I have sitting across from me has worked for a long time with the Livingston-Barris Sheriff's Office, Captain Calvin Bowden. First of all, welcome to the show. Thank you, Jim. Appreciate it. So we're going to talk about internet crimes against children today, something you're very involved with. But before we get into it, what it is, what it does, and what y'all. Do specifically with that collaboration, I. Want to talk a little bit about you. How long have you been with the Sheriff's Department?

0:41 I've been at the Livingston Parish Sheriff's Office for 28 years. 28 years. And how did you start off there? So I started off in corrections. Yeah. Worked there just probably about six months and then went to uniform patrol. Stayed in uniform patrol for a while. Then I became a D.A.R.E. officer. Yeah. Oh, really? I didn't know that. Interesting. I taught D.A.R.E. for a couple years. How did you like that? I liked it. Yeah. I liked it. You know, making a difference in them young children's lives. Oh, yeah. It was inspiring. Yeah. And then in 2005, I went to criminal investigations, and I've been in criminal investigations ever since.

1:26 Yeah, yeah. And, of course, through 28 years, I find, and that's very unique to your experiences, you've seen a lot of changes in technology. A lot, yes. I can only imagine. I mean, 28 years ago, I guess the Internet existed, but it barely existed at that point. Right. Yeah. And now it is pretty much a playground for business and for bad actors. Yes. A lot of times. And I guess that would lead us into ICAC. And I want to maybe, if you could, explain to people what ICAC is and how it started.

2:08 So Internet Crimes Against Children is a task force. It is... started with the, uh, in Louisiana started, uh, with the, uh, attorney general's office. Yeah. Um, back before we got involved in it two and a half years ago, there were probably less than 10, uh, agencies that were, were involved in now, uh, through the hard work of, uh, attorney general, uh, Liz Merrill's team, all 64 parishes have ICAC, uh, Task Force that we all work together, you know, moving in the same direction to protect not only the kids in our parish, but the kids in our whole state. Wow.

2:57 And what I find interesting about ICAC is that there's no limitations even relative to states. ICAC exists in other states, which I would imagine helps you folks if you're dealing with someone who maybe came from another state here. uh, to commit a crime, you know, and you mentioned collaboration and how there was only, you know, a limited number of agencies when it started. Now it's a hundred percent filled. Right. Amazing progress on that. But it also speaks to me as a, I guess, a citizen that obviously it's working and these, in the sheriffs and, uh, are seeing it working and they want to get involved in that. Right.

3:39 Yes. Yes. So, uh, whenever you have, uh, All these agencies that are involved and have these task force, whenever your investigation reaches these different parishes or these different states, you have a point of contact that you can reach out to and they can help you and assist you in an investigation. And they do the same investigations you do. So they know firsthand what they need to do, what they need to ask. what type of evidence they need to seize. And it just, it makes everything run smoothly. Wow. And I want to, I want to talk a little bit to or about the subject of parental supervision over kids and, and what parents can do because a lot of these parents grew up in a generation where the internet was.

4:33 Was in its infancy. I mean, you didn't have, matter of fact, I had flip phones, and before flip phones, I had– remember the Nextels? Oh, yeah. I had a Nextel pager. I used to roll around with a pager and stop at pay phones. So that generation of– you know, our generation of people, unless you're in a field like mine or yours, for example, where you're around computers every day, you may not understand the risk. Involved in handing children a cell phone. There's some benefits to that. You can– You can obviously call your child anytime there's a worry about something to make sure they're okay, but there's some risk. And that's what I really want to talk about today. Let's talk about the risk that you see with these bad actors and how they're preying on these children.

5:23 And, you know, as a parent, you want to give your child access to further their education and learn things and you know, a digital device can help in that, right? Yeah. But also these predators, these bad actors, that's what they're using as well. Yeah. So, you know, if our kids have any type of device that reaches the outside world on the Internet, those predators are there as well. Yeah. That's a scary thought. Yes, it is. Yeah.

6:05 And, and, uh, they, obviously these predators don't think like you and I do. And, uh, you know, they have one goal in mind and, and they'll say anything to achieve that goal. Um, what, how are they getting in touch with these children? I mean, they're not reaching out typically and calling them on the telephone. No. So if, if say the, the, the kid has a Facebook, they are instant message. The, uh, the, the child on Facebook. And these predators, they do their homework, okay? That's why whenever we go to these schools and present about safety, I caution parents about putting personal information about the kids and things that are going on in their lives on the Internet. For example, if you have a kid that is going through a situation where they lost a loved one or something and it's posted on the Internet, then they're going through a stage of grievance in their life and that predator sees that and they're going to step in and try to fill any void that that kid has in their life. These predators, whenever they reach out, they will find what these kids are involved in and they will fill that void and make it where they are friending this person the these these kids right yeah

7:38 and and that's that's where it all starts. Yeah they look it seems like they're they're looking for an end right any way they can find it right and that end becomes like uh you know i haven't thought about that but yeah you you're posting something innocent or that you would assume was relatively innocent you got to be real careful uh Almost like think on the other side of that, how could somebody take advantage of this before you post it? Right. And that's something most parents, you know, it just doesn't enter their mind. Yeah, because whenever they– You would never think somebody would take advantage of that. Whenever these parents post this or they have their kids post stuff, it's very innocent.

8:20 Yeah. But on the flip side, these predators are looking for that, and they're trying to fill any void that these kids have in their life to make– They're self-relevant, right? Yeah. I know that. Our Attorney General has created an extreme focus on Roblox in particular. Of course, there are other applications out there as well. But Roblox in particular, because it is an application that was designed for children, for children to play. And everybody out there is familiar, I'm sure, with Roblox. but you may not be familiar with the messaging features on Roblox. And I think that has become, let's talk about that for a minute. And you can explain to people how they're reaching out on these applications. And even outside of like a Facebook where you know there's a messaging system, how they're reaching out on these applications that you may not realize have communication systems.

9:22 Right. And that's a good point for... Nowadays, whenever we do search warrants on investigations and stuff like that, before you would want the digital devices, the phones, the computers. Now you have to go for the phones, the computers, the gaming devices, the Xboxes, the PlayStations, and stuff like that because those game components do reach out to the Internet. And those games that are played on those devices, Yeah. They have messaging, uh, capabilities and predators are there as well. Yeah. Just like on, on Roblox. Yeah. Yeah.

10:05 And I, I know Roblox is the one that makes all the news in Snapchats, things, uh, things of that nature. But I would probably say most every application, uh, out there has some sort of messaging capability to it now, which is scary. Right. What can a parent do to, you know, what would you advise to stay on top of this and just ensure that something is not going on that is out of the ordinary with their children? Right. Just like Sheriff Jason Hart always says, be in your kid's business, right? Yes. Be in your kid's business as a parent.

10:46 Right. But do integrity checks on your kids' devices. Let the kids know that at any point that you as a parent can ask for that device and do an integrity check and see what they're looking at. Scroll through the messages and so forth like that. And check the Internet history. If the Internet history is deleted, that's a red flag. they're probably looking at something that they probably shouldn't be because why would you delete it? Right. Right. Yeah. So that's, that's one thing, but just do integrity checks on the phones and, uh, you know, a good, a good thing to do is, you know, have boundaries for as times and places that they can use the phones. Yeah.

11:36 You know, because a lot of times these, uh, these predators, uh, They're taking advantage of these children. And what we see is it's usually in the bedrooms and the bathrooms. Yeah. Yeah. That's a great point. You know, and Calvin, it's an uncomfortable conversation to have with your kids that predators exist and predators are out there. And I had this conversation, you know, with my girls. Right. When they were of the age. And, you know, it's weird. As a matter of fact, now you can almost say of the age because it's all ages you've got to watch out for. But I did have a conversation with them at one point that, hey, there's people out there that will lie to you and say they're 12 when they're 24.

12:22 Oh, absolutely. And that was kind of a tough conversation to have for a dad. I remember my parents sitting me down and going to tell me about the birds and the bees. And I'm like, I already know about the birds and the bees. I don't want to have this conversation. I distinctly remember that. But for me, it was very important to sit down and have that conversation, no matter how uncomfortable it was, that there are people out there that have nothing but the worst intentions of Uh, and it was primarily because, uh, you know, at that time I was, I was covering crime on a, on a weekly news show. And, and, uh, it was something that I, I lived in that world, you know, where I saw these horrible things happening and, and I knew how important it was, but a lot of people, they, you know, understandably want to shy away from that. And I, you know, nobody ever wants to have that conversation. How important is that conversation?

13:20 That conversation is very important. Um, Like I tell all the parents whenever we do these informational talks, I stress to them that they should have the conversation with their kids and their kids should feel comfortable coming to them. That's a great point. Because there are so many times that we work cases where the child makes a bad decision, which children are going to make bad decisions as part of growing up. I did. Right? They're part of growing up. They make a bad decision.

14:01 They send an inappropriate picture, and the person tries to start extorting them for more pictures or send money. You know, it's a lot of different things that could happen. And if you don't have that conversation and your child don't feel comfortable to reach out, that kid's going to feel isolated and they feel like they're alone, right? Yeah. And that leads to teen suicide and things like that, you know. So we definitely don't want that to happen. And like I tell the kids, you know, hey, we're all human. Everybody makes mistakes. But feel comfortable going to your parent because– That's your safe haven. That's right. They love you and they want to take care of you.

14:52 Yeah. You know, are you going to get in trouble? Probably. But it's not the end of the world. You can move past it. Yeah. You know, they're there to help you. That's right. They're there to help you. That's right. And, you know, you bring up a good point with pictures because even today, now you have to worry about you didn't even really send a picture. They took a regular picture of. You and used AI and made it look like– you sent a picture that you didn't and. Then threaten you with it. Right. Which thankfully, Louisiana has really stepped up and our legislators and their laws against that now in the state of Louisiana. And you try something stupid like that, you're going to do some jail time.

15:35 Definitely. Yeah. And because that has been a big problem, I know nationally, and I've talked about this on one of my shows with the 764 group and how These sick individuals are going around and they're making these AI pictures and then they're making these kids feel like they have to do things so that they don't expose those pictures. And, you know, I hope every person under the age of 18 or even over the age of 18 that is worried about something like that knows that everybody out there knows that capability is there and no one is going to believe that picture is real. And I would, you know, there are ways to tell when something's AI and when it's not.

16:18 And so don't be concerned about that. And that kind of leads me to my next point is as a parent, if let's say you are doing an integrity check and you come across something and you're like, oh, this is not good. I just came across some text or some messages or whatever pictures. What do you do? So if you're doing an integrity check and you come across something that is alarming or something that throws a red flag, number one, contact us. Contact us. Don't delete the information off the phone. Very important.

16:59 Don't contact the suspect. Even harder to do, but very important. As a parent, you want to make that call right then. Oh, yeah, 100%. You know, but. we don't want to lose the information on the device that you have. Don't, don't delete it and don't alert the suspect because we don't want them to delete off their device before we can further the investigation. So, so that's, that's important. I know as a parent, you won't, you want to get instant relief from the situation, you know, but let, us as law enforcement, investigate it and do it the right way so we can get the information, the evidence, so we can submit that to the DA for a prosecution.

17:47 And I'm glad you brought that up because if you don't live in that world, you may not realize how. Important the process is. But, you know, detectives like Captain Calvin, they're primary job is to gather evidence. And then by the time they turn that over to a district attorney, hopefully that district attorney's job is easy. All the evidence is here. All you got to do is, you know, the attorney is really the person who is presenting it in court. That's it. Great detectives like Captain Calvin, they know when they're at the point that we have enough evidence here that this can get a prosecution. And then that attorney basically looks at that and says, you're right, you do. And then moves forward with it. Anything done to impede that or that possibly could impede that could create a major problem.

18:45 And I want to talk about. This just briefly, but there's a lot of, you know, with TikTok out there and Facebook stories and all this stuff, there's a A lot of people out there and they're doing this vigilante work where they're basically trying to catch predators as a regular everyday citizen. And while all of us, I'm sure Captain Calvin is no different, there's a side that says, oh, this is great. The problem is. ICAC specifically are trained individuals to know what you can do and what you cannot do in order to either hinder or get a prosecution, correct? Yes, that's correct. There's ICAC standards that are in place that ICAC, Internet Crimes Against Children, regulates and requires us to stay within, right? And in Also, our district attorney's office has these boundaries that they want for prosecution, right?

19:47 So whenever we... as investigators put a profile out there on any type of platform, we put the profile out there and we wait for people to reach out to us. We don't reach out to people, right? But these vigilantes... They put a profile. They're reaching out to everybody, right? See if they can catch something. Well, that's not the standard. That's not the protocol of what we need for a good, solid prosecution. So are they doing good work exposing people? Yes. However, you're not going to get a prosecution and you're not going to do the whole deal of making the person that is trying to exploit a kid jail time.

20:42 Right. Right. And also on top of that, I would even imagine that you all the time don't know who you're dealing with. And you need to be real careful. You know, a lot of. Times they're meeting these people in public places that I've seen. And I'm thinking, man, if this guy went off and just pulled a gun and started, you know, shooting, there's a thousand innocent people around this individual that's got this camera pointed at this guy, you're creating a very volatile situation. Oh, without a doubt. I mean, Jim, there's been numerous occasions where we've done stings and people have showed up with guns and they were just meeting a 15-year-old female, right? Yeah.

21:29 What they thought. And they showed up with loaded guns in their waistbands. Yeah. I mean. And you're professionals. Exactly. And that's in a controlled environment, right? When these vigilantes are doing this, it's not in a controlled environment. They're putting themselves and the public at risk. That's right. That's right. And that's what I see a lot with these. So while the premise of it seems like a very honorable thing to do, it's not always the smartest thing to do, especially when you get to that prosecution stage of that crime. And you mentioned Sting's, and that kind of leads me to my next point. Some of you may already recognize Captain Calvin. He has become a movie star for all intents and purposes.

22:18 He is one of. The ones that is featured heavily on Chris Hansen's Takedown series. And that was something that, at least me on the outside looking in, seemed like a very good partnership to have with Chris Hansen in that series. Let's talk about that for a minute. What's that been like? It's been very rewarding. You know, my team, they're the best there is in the ICAC world. And for them to be able to showcase their talent to not only everybody in Livingston Parish, but people around the world is very rewarding because this– this job that they do every day is a grind, right? And to be able to showcase their work and their dedication and their talent is very rewarding.

23:13 Yeah, I can imagine. And it has led to a lot of bust. And I found it interesting because I follow the series, watch it, very entertained by it. I find it interesting that the majority of the people that are coming into Livingston Parish in particular, aren't from here. Right. Some are from way far away. Right. Yeah. So since we started our ICAG division, we've arrested, we've made over 240 arrests. Wow. Right. And over 70% of those arrests are people that are outside of Livingston Parish. Yeah.

23:55 Yeah. So, you know, these predators are seeking children outside of their communities. Yeah. So they're not known. Right. So that's another reason why it's important to have this ICAC division task force all throughout the state. Yeah. Because the Internet doesn't have any boundaries. No, it doesn't. It doesn't have any jurisdictions. So we need to make these investigations where they don't have any jurisdictions and we will all work together. I think it's a wonderful thing. And, you know, it's interesting. And you can speak to this because you've been at LPSO for so long. You know, I co-hosted a show for many, many years with someone that had been at LPSO way back.

24:45 In the day. And one thing that I found interesting was when he used to tell me this, Woody, that, you know, it used to be the detective worked everything. So it was, whether it was a robbery, whether it was, uh, you know, God forbid a homicide or whether it was someone shoplifting, um, you're going, it's the same detective working all these things. And you've gone from that to now having, uh, all these different divisions and that's a credit to sheriff art and the things that he has done to, to bring that department forward. To where you. Have actually financial crimes division now, which is a huge problem.

25:32 The advent of Bitcoin has caused these people from other countries to actually steal $ 300, 000, $ 400, 000 from these poor people who are elderly that have no idea really what they're doing transferring this money. And so we have divisions at LPSO now that focus specifically on that. From when you started to where it was one guy, two guys working everything. Yeah. Whenever I started investigations, like I say, in 2005, we worked everything from garbage can thefts to homicide. That's wild. To sexual assault. So if you got a call and you answered the phone, it was yours, right? And it didn't matter.

26:19 Right. But under the great leadership of Sheriff Jason Ord and his vision for the office, he has made it very, very detail-oriented for these different types of divisions to investigate these crimes. He's given us the tools, the education, the learning, and the backing to allow us to do these investigations effectively. and all the tools that we need to do it. And I think that it shows. Because I'll tell you, you know, one thing with Livingston Parish, in particular where I live, is, you know, unfortunately we're surrounded by some areas that struggle with crime for one reason or another. And I almost feel insulated in a way from that. And I think a lot of that is because of Sheriff Ord's foresight of really getting ahead of the problem and forming divisions as technology would change, like ICAC, like financial crimes and things like that. And also a heck of a good department. Just good people over there that know what they're doing, know how to investigate cases. And, you know, I absolutely will go to bat anytime. You would think I work for LPSA sometimes

27:49 because I get so offended. But, you know, it just is what it is because I know how bad it is out there. I study it so hard. And I'm like, y'all have, you know, y'all have to realize how good we have it here and how amazing a job that that department has done. And I really mean that. Um, it is, it is, uh, it, it's a zoo out there to say the least. And, uh, and so it takes everybody pulling in the same direction to really insulate that as much as possible. And I can tell you one thing I wake up every day and one thing I don't feel is not safe.

28:30 Right. And that credit all goes to, you know, our local municipalities and our sheriff's office here. In Livingston Parish. We are the fastest growing parish in the state. And with that, you know, comes a lot of times crime. I mean, it just is what it is. And I can tell you that y'all are just doing a phenomenal job in everything possible to stay ahead of it. Right. And I love that, man. I really can't tell you how much I appreciate y'all focusing on the children like you do. That is not a fun job. aspect of enforcement from the aspect of it's, it takes a special person to be able to communicate with someone that they probably think deep down inside is a real, you know, piece of trash.

29:19 Right. Right. And you've got to sit there and communicate with this person and act like you're someone you're not. And it would, I'm sure it turns your stomach and everybody's in your, on your teams to do that, but you do it because of, You're right. You're serving and protecting. You're protecting these children. That's it. Because, you know, you you, you look at it and if you're, if you're on these platforms and these, these predators are reaching out to you and they're trying to exploit you, they're not talking to a real child exploiting that child. Right. Right. So you're, you're stepping in the gap there and you're exposing that person and you're protecting that, that real child out there, because if we're not on there, they're going to be talking to somebody. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So if we're out there being proactive, we're, we're protecting the kids, you know, and what, what is very interesting and, I have a lot of people that say, I mean, the Internet is broad, it's big, and how do you know you're making a difference? Well, this is how we're making a difference. Whenever you're online and you're chatting, right, and they're starting to want to get inappropriate and so forth like that, and they ask you where you live, and you say Walker, Dental Springs, whatever, and they said Livingston Parish,

30:54 they say, not today. I'm not talking to anybody from Livingston Parish. So guess what? Word's out there. That right there tells me we're making a difference. Whenever a predator don't want to continue a conversation because you live in a certain area, you know you're making a difference. And that 100% is because of the leadership of Sheriff Jason Arden and his vision that he had for ICAC. And we are making a difference for our kids. Yeah, 100%. And I'll tell you, you say it on episodes all the time on Takedown, you know, don't come in this parish.

31:36 You're in Sheriff Jason Orange Paris right now, and we don't put up with predators. That's exactly right. You're going to go to the hotel. Hotel, motel. That's right. Hotel, motel. Captain Calvin Bowden, I can't thank you enough for doing this and coming on the show. But even more than that, I can't thank you enough for doing what you do to serve and protect every day, man. Y'all are heroes to me. I appreciate that. I really mean that. And, uh, and so for anyone out there, if you have any, any more questions, just give them, give them to me, you know, message me or whatever. And I'll, I'll get with Calvin Bowden and see if I can get you some answers. Uh, if you'd like to learn more about ICAC, I'm going to put, uh, I'm going to put in the description of this podcast, some links that you can go to, to learn a little bit more about the program and, uh, and, what we're doing here in Livingston Parish and all that.

32:30 And also, you know, if you have any school groups, any church groups, or, you know, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, anything where you're in need of a presentation, you know, to bring awareness to the parents, to the children, reach out to us and let us know because we offer that. And, you know, we want to arm everybody. with this knowledge and to, to help protect the community. So the more people that, that has this information and would know how to protect their children, the better. That's right.

33:11 And I would imagine the goal is always one day to log on that internet and no one reach out. Exactly. And that will be a beautiful thing. You know, the, the, but, I can't thank you enough for coming on and. Sharing with us. Yes, sir. And we'll put everything you need, folks, down in the description so it'll be easy to find. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, I'm Jim Chapman, and we'll talk to you next time. Thanks.